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Since: Feb 22, 2008 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:32 am
Post subject: What determines size of a JPG ? Archived from groups: comp>graphics>apps>photoshop (more info?)
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I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG's of Monet artwork. In
a graphics program if I view 'image information' it says they are 2600
X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics
program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they
were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated
from a smaller image?
Thanks,
Allen >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Oct 12, 2005 Posts: 1154
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:12 am
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"allenc" <twice.redeemed DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:63aa15c8-3dfe-4fd5-a10e-8e3e3c27daf7@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG's of Monet artwork. In
> a graphics program if I view 'image information' it says they are 2600
> X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics
> program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they
> were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated
> from a smaller image?
This is an interesting question. If you are seeing pixellated data, that
may be an indication that the images were resized, or it could just be jpeg
artifacting. Jpeg not only has a finite cell size, but it also quantizes
color and brightness values.
I would do this by making several duplicates of the image in Photoshop,
resizing each one down by an increasing amount, and then resizing back
again. Then go compare the images and see at what point you can tell the
difference. This is a subjective judgment. Sharpening or other
manipulations may have been applied to the image, and you are really looking
for meaningful data, such as canvas and paint texture, brush marks, etc.
For example, create 3 copies, resize the them to 66, 50, and 25 percent of
the original. Then resize them again to match the original size. To make
comparing easier, create a new image and drag the layers from the original,
and the three copies to that image. Then click on the "eye-cons" in the
layer palette to hide and show individual layers for comparison with the
original. Add noise and/or sharpen with unsharp mask to see if you can
match one of the resized images to the original.
None of this constitutes proof that there was any deception involved, but it
will prove that the image does not really contain a full 9 megapixels. For
example the images may have been scanned from slides with less than 9mp of
effective resolution.
--
Mike Russell - www.curvemeister.com >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Feb 22, 2008 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:08 am
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 21, 6:12 pm, "Mike Russell" <RE-MOVEm....TakeThisOut@Curvemeister.comRE-
MOVE> wrote:
> "allenc" <twice.redee....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:63aa15c8-3dfe-4fd5-a10e-8e3e3c27daf7@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG's of Monet artwork. In
> > a graphics program if I view 'image information' it says they are 2600
> > X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics
> > program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they
> > were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated
> > from a smaller image?
>
> This is an interesting question. If you are seeing pixellated data, that
> may be an indication that the images were resized, or it could just be jpeg
> artifacting. Jpeg not only has a finite cell size, but it also quantizes
> color and brightness values.
>
> I would do this by making several duplicates of the image in Photoshop,
> resizing each one down by an increasing amount, and then resizing back
> again. Then go compare the images and see at what point you can tell the
> difference. This is a subjective judgment. Sharpening or other
> manipulations may have been applied to the image, and you are really looking
> for meaningful data, such as canvas and paint texture, brush marks, etc.
>
> For example, create 3 copies, resize the them to 66, 50, and 25 percent of
> the original. Then resize them again to match the original size. To make
> comparing easier, create a new image and drag the layers from the original,
> and the three copies to that image. Then click on the "eye-cons" in the
> layer palette to hide and show individual layers for comparison with the
> original. Add noise and/or sharpen with unsharp mask to see if you can
> match one of the resized images to the original.
>
> None of this constitutes proof that there was any deception involved, but it
> will prove that the image does not really contain a full 9 megapixels. For
> example the images may have been scanned from slides with less than 9mp of
> effective resolution.
> --
> Mike Russell -www.curvemeister.com
Hi - I actually use Paint Shop Pro graphics program and I am not
sophisticated enough to do all the layer comparison you speak about. I
was hoping there was just a simple way to tell if these were truly 300
dpi at that pixel size.
> will prove that the image does not really contain a full 9 megapixels. For
> example the images may have been scanned from slides with less than 9mp of
> effective resolution.
What is the 9mp you mention ? Where did you get that number ? Is that
what the size of the JPG should be for this size image?
What about if i save these as TIF, is there anyway to tell if they are
smaller images that have been artificailly enlarged?
Thanks,
Allen >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Feb 22, 2008 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:31 pm
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 22, 2:16 pm, James McNangle <mcnan... RemoveThis @westnet.com.au> wrote:
> "Mike Russell" <RE-MOVEm... RemoveThis @Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:
> >"allenc" <twice.redee... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:63aa15c8-3dfe-4fd5-a10e-8e3e3c27daf7@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >>I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG's of Monet artwork. In
> >> a graphics program if I view 'image information' it says they are 2600
> >> X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics
> >> program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they
> >> were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated
> >> from a smaller image?
>
> >This is an interesting question. If you are seeing pixellated data, that
> >may be an indication that the images were resized, or it could just be jpeg
> >artifacting. Jpeg not only has a finite cell size, but it also quantizes
> >color and brightness values.
>
> I think this most likely means that the pictures were shot at a lower
> resolution, and then resized, as you suggest. However it is also possible that
> they have been saved as a JPEG with an excessive compression factor at some
> stage along the way. The easiest way to detect this is to look for thin
> vertical lines in the sky. If excessive compression has been used it will cause
> 'echoes' to propagate out from the lines on both sides.
>
> James McNangle
When I expand it to 100% I do see lines, the pixels start appearing as
lines. Could I attach and send you one of the images to your email and
you could tell me what you think?
Thanks,
Allen >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Feb 22, 2008 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:04 pm
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 22, 2:50 pm, "pico" <pico.pico.pico> wrote:
> "allenc" <twice.redee....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:63aa15c8-3dfe-4fd5-a10e-8e3e3c27daf7@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG's of Monet artwork. In
> > a graphics program if I view 'image information' it says they are 2600
> > X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics
> > program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they
> > were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated
> > from a smaller image?
>
> They lied, or just raging incompetents.
> Pixels are pixels.
> You got a ~7x10" 'print' (300ppi) image or a monitor image of ~27x37"
I've got a 2600 X 3600 supposedly at 300 ppi, but if I expand it to
100% on the screen, it has some blocky pixels and ugly lines.
alllen >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Aug 29, 2007 Posts: 52
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:50 pm
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"allenc" <twice.redeemed DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:63aa15c8-3dfe-4fd5-a10e-8e3e3c27daf7@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG's of Monet artwork. In
> a graphics program if I view 'image information' it says they are 2600
> X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics
> program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they
> were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated
> from a smaller image?
They lied, or just raging incompetents.
Pixels are pixels.
You got a ~7x10" 'print' (300ppi) image or a monitor image of ~27x37" >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Jan 11, 2008 Posts: 22
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:42 pm
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"allenc" <twice.redeemed.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:71580538-4244-497c-b3f1-60badcd36d8e@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I've got a 2600 X 3600 supposedly at 300 ppi, but if I expand it to
>100% on the screen, it has some blocky pixels and ugly lines.
Just look to the pixels. That's the only thing that is real. If someone
pokes in 300, 360 ppi or whatever it makes no difference. They are either
incompetent or rip-off types. In the end, it makes no difference because
they do not deliver what they claim.
Send us their source and we can release Guido to break their legs. >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Oct 12, 2005 Posts: 1154
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"allenc" <twice.redeemed DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea3e6f9f-0a5f-4ed4-8d10-
> Hi - I actually use Paint Shop Pro graphics program and I am not
> sophisticated enough to do all the layer comparison you speak about. I
> was hoping there was just a simple way to tell if these were truly 300
> dpi at that pixel size.
The layer comparison is not important - I imagine PSP does the same thing,
perhaps using ctrl Tab to toggle between images.
> will prove that the image does not really contain a full 9 megapixels.
> For
> example the images may have been scanned from slides with less than 9mp of
> effective resolution.
> What is the 9mp you mention ? Where did you get that number ? Is that
> what the size of the JPG should be for this size image?
It's the number of pixels in the image.
> What about if i save these as TIF, is there anyway to tell if they are
> smaller images that have been artificailly enlarged?
TIFF is another file format that contains the same image data, only
uncompressed. JPG files are substantially smaller because they use a rather
clever compression algorithm.
To answer your original question directly, there is no automatic way to
check for the original size of an image after it has been resized. More
than likely, there has been no deliberate deception. Museums generally have
their paintings photographed for record keeping purposes. They then make
money by selling dupes of the slides at the gift shop. More than likely you
purchased digitized versions of the duplicated slides, and the quality is
somewhat lacking. I've seen museum slides that were actually printed with
ink, so consider yourself fortunate
On the plus side, now that you have the images in PSP, you can sharpen them
and improve the colors.
--
Mike Russell - www.curvemeister.com >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: May 29, 2005 Posts: 68
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:50 am
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:08:54 -0800 (PST), allenc
<twice.redeemed.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi - I actually use Paint Shop Pro graphics program and I am not
>sophisticated enough to do all the layer comparison you speak about. I
>was hoping there was just a simple way to tell if these were truly 300
>dpi at that pixel size.
Forget about dpi, that tells you nothing. The point is the pixel width
and height.
>What is the 9mp you mention ? Where did you get that number ?
2600 X 3600 = 9360000
Easy to use graphics effects:
http://www.ransen.com/ >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Aug 10, 2005 Posts: 87
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:16 am
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Mike Russell" <RE-MOVEmike.TakeThisOut@Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:
>"allenc" <twice.redeemed.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:63aa15c8-3dfe-4fd5-a10e-8e3e3c27daf7@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG's of Monet artwork. In
>> a graphics program if I view 'image information' it says they are 2600
>> X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics
>> program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they
>> were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated
>> from a smaller image?
>
>This is an interesting question. If you are seeing pixellated data, that
>may be an indication that the images were resized, or it could just be jpeg
>artifacting. Jpeg not only has a finite cell size, but it also quantizes
>color and brightness values.
I think this most likely means that the pictures were shot at a lower
resolution, and then resized, as you suggest. However it is also possible that
they have been saved as a JPEG with an excessive compression factor at some
stage along the way. The easiest way to detect this is to look for thin
vertical lines in the sky. If excessive compression has been used it will cause
'echoes' to propagate out from the lines on both sides.
James McNangle >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Aug 10, 2005 Posts: 87
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:37 am
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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allenc <twice.redeemed.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>When I expand it to 100% I do see lines, the pixels start appearing as
>lines. Could I attach and send you one of the images to your email and
>you could tell me what you think?
I guess so, but title it something like 'Sample image, as discusses on comp
graphics' or it is likely to go in the bin, along with all the girls with
oversized body parts.
James McNangle >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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Since: Feb 22, 2008 Posts: 5
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:27 am
Post subject: Re: What determines size of a JPG ? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 23, 2:37 pm, James McNangle <mcnan....RemoveThis@westnet.com.au> wrote:
> allenc <twice.redee....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >When I expand it to 100% I do see lines, the pixels start appearing as
> >lines. Could I attach and send you one of the images to your email and
> >you could tell me what you think?
>
> I guess so, but title it something like 'Sample image, as discusses on comp
> graphics' or it is likely to go in the bin, along with all the girls with
> oversized body parts.
>
> James McNangle
What's your private email ? I'll send it over to you.
Thanks,
Allen >> Stay informed about: What determines size of a JPG ? |
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