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TIFF vs. PSD formats

 
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UCLA Fan

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Since: Sep 17, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 8:44 pm
Post subject: TIFF vs. PSD formats
Archived from groups: alt>graphics>photoshop (more info?)

I understand that manipulating JPEG and than resaving causes a loss of
pixels. My Camera does have a RAW mode but I shoot JPEG only. My question
is, is there a difference in converting my files to TIFF vs. PSD before
editing occurs? Does one provide a better format to work with or a higher
quality image.

TIA
Ken

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Eric Gill

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Since: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: 635



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:09 pm
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"UCLA Fan" <Nightowl805 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
news:2J3ab.7416$BS5.5048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> I understand that manipulating JPEG and than resaving causes a loss of
> pixels. My Camera does have a RAW mode but I shoot JPEG only. My
> question is, is there a difference in converting my files to TIFF vs.
> PSD before editing occurs? Does one provide a better format to work
> with or a higher quality image.

Since version 6.01 they are functionally the same EXCEPT:

1) Both can use compression - PSD uses it as default. This is not like JPEG
compression, it is lossless. However, Adobe owns the Tiff standard and
added an option to use JPEG compression inside of Tiff. Don't use it.

2) An uncompressed Tiff can be used by many other programs, a PSD by only a
few.

I store my working copies in uncompressed Tiff for these reasons.

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UCLA Fan

External


Since: Sep 17, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:27 pm
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Thanks for the advice Eric

Ken

"Eric Gill" <ericvgill.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93F9A424ADFC4ericvgillyahoocom@24.28.95.158...
> "UCLA Fan" <Nightowl805.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:2J3ab.7416$BS5.5048@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
> > I understand that manipulating JPEG and than resaving causes a loss of
> > pixels. My Camera does have a RAW mode but I shoot JPEG only. My
> > question is, is there a difference in converting my files to TIFF vs.
> > PSD before editing occurs? Does one provide a better format to work
> > with or a higher quality image.
>
> Since version 6.01 they are functionally the same EXCEPT:
>
> 1) Both can use compression - PSD uses it as default. This is not like
JPEG
> compression, it is lossless. However, Adobe owns the Tiff standard and
> added an option to use JPEG compression inside of Tiff. Don't use it.
>
> 2) An uncompressed Tiff can be used by many other programs, a PSD by only
a
> few.
>
> I store my working copies in uncompressed Tiff for these reasons.
 >> Stay informed about: TIFF vs. PSD formats 
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Paul Furman

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Since: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 59



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:22 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

PSD allows layers and other special features and is quite a bit larger
than TIFF (I think). Unless you are adding text or something, there is
no need to save as PSD. Jpeg compression simplifies similar regions into
blocky chunks. Do a test saving at a high compression level to jpeg and
zoom in very close to see and understand the damage that is done with a
jpeg save. Large gradated skys and gradual tones like that can sometimes
get awful effects from saving as a jpeg. Very complex detailed images
will not compress as much in jpeg format. I always save the original
jpeg images from my camera and generally save again after modifications
in jpeg at a pretty high quality depending on the purpose. If it's a
prize photo with heavy manipulation I might want to save as PSD so I can
go back & re-adjust masks and adjustment layers. If it's a simple
adjustment, I can always go back to the original if it's needed for
extra large prints.

If you have enough memory cards and don't mind downloading often it's
best to use the non-jpeg option then probably convert that to TIF since
it's more standard. I go out in the field and like to take hundreds of
pictures in a day so I can't afford to use the tif mode on my camera.
Another consideration is that the embedded EXIF information about the
exposure, etc may be lost when converting from the original. Keeping
unaltered originals is always a good idea unless you are sure this info
won't be lost.

UCLA Fan wrote:

>I understand that manipulating JPEG and than resaving causes a loss of
>pixels. My Camera does have a RAW mode but I shoot JPEG only. My question
>is, is there a difference in converting my files to TIFF vs. PSD before
>editing occurs? Does one provide a better format to work with or a higher
>quality image.
>
>TIA
>Ken
>
>
>
>
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Eric Gill

External


Since: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: 635



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Paul Furman <paul.RemoveThis@edgehill.net> wrote in news:lsWcnWQPvJ9odfSiXTWc-
w.RemoveThis@speakeasy.net:

<snip>

> PSD allows layers and other special features and is quite a bit larger
> than TIFF (I think).

Just the opposite. Adobe kept compatibility by keeping a flattened version
stored with the layered version.

A good example is a poster I'm working on: layered Tiff, 112MB. PSD, 75MB.

<snip>
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Paul Furman

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Since: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 59



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I've got to remember the newbie disclaimer on my posts. But honestly
that has been the most obvious difference. As soon as I make a second
layer PS5.5 will only allow me to save as PSD format and the file size
mushrooms. Is this a newer version feature or something more
sophisticated I don't get?


Eric Gill wrote:

>Paul Furman <paul.TakeThisOut@edgehill.net> wrote in news:lsWcnWQPvJ9odfSiXTWc-
>w@speakeasy.net:
>
><snip>
>
>
>
>>PSD allows layers and other special features and is quite a bit larger
>>than TIFF (I think).
>>
>>
>
>Just the opposite. Adobe kept compatibility by keeping a flattened version
>stored with the layered version.
>
>A good example is a poster I'm working on: layered Tiff, 112MB. PSD, 75MB.
>
><snip>
>
>
>
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Eric Gill

External


Since: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: 635



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:26 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

nomail.DeleteThis@please.invalid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote in
news:1g1i8co.skvo9ev32x4gN%nomail@please.invalid:

> Paul Furman <paul.DeleteThis@edgehill.net> wrote:
>
>> PSD allows layers and other special features and is quite a bit larger
>> than TIFF (I think). Unless you are adding text or something, there is
>> no need to save as PSD.
>
> TIFF allows everything PSD allows. There is never a need to save in PSD.
> Anything you can save in PSD, you can save in TIFF as well.

Yes and no.

I should have noted - while Tiff does preserve layers and such, few
applications can work with them (yet). AFAIK, only InDesign will preserve
vector information when placing a tiff that contains such.
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Jeff H.

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Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 52



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:26 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Uh... layer styles?

JD


> > TIFF allows everything PSD allows. There is never a need to save in PSD.
Anything you can save in PSD, you can save in TIFF as well.
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Eric Gill

External


Since: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: 635



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:48 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jeff H." <nospam@nospam> wrote in news:3f6a7126_2@news.cybersurf.net:

> Uh... layer styles?

What about them?

>
>> > TIFF allows everything PSD allows. There is never a need to save in
>> > PSD.
> Anything you can save in PSD, you can save in TIFF as well.
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Eric Gill

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Since: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: 635



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:52 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Paul Furman <paul DeleteThis @edgehill.net> wrote in
news:qaGcnfaLzvZACveiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net:

> I've got to remember the newbie disclaimer on my posts. But honestly
> that has been the most obvious difference. As soon as I make a second
> layer PS5.5 will only allow me to save as PSD format and the file size
> mushrooms. Is this a newer version feature or something more
> sophisticated I don't get?

My first message read:

"Since version 6.01 they (PSD and TIFF) are functionally the same EXCEPT:"

I meant ver. 6.01 of Photoshop. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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Jeff H.

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Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 52



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

What about them?
>

Someone posted: " TIFF allows everything PSD allows. There is never a need
to save in PSD. Anything you can save in PSD, you can save in TIFF as
well."

I replied: "Uh... layer styles?"

U said :"What about them?"

I clarify: "does the TIFF spec support PS layer styles? No?

Then I could suggest that saving as a TIFF does NOT allow everything PSD
allows.


JD
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Jack B

External


Since: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <3f6bd143_2.TakeThisOut@news.cybersurf.net>, Jeff H. <nospam@nospam>
wrote:

> What about them?
> >
>
> Someone posted: " TIFF allows everything PSD allows. There is never a need
> to save in PSD. Anything you can save in PSD, you can save in TIFF as
> well."

I have had a problem, in 9 (as I remember) and X about saving a psd to
a non-primary drive and having it sometime later come back as

"The document has been damaged by a disk error..."

This's happened with many pix on an internal SCSI drive and on an
external FW drive. And across the LAN (that is, more than one client
Ethernet machine (all OSX.2.6 using ps7.0.1) could not properly read
the files).

Never had a problem with any jpg or tiff (or any other file).

What is this? Have I missed some discussion about this issue?

Can't be just my problem...

--
Jack
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Eric Gill

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Since: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: 635



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:04 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jeff H." <nospam@nospam> wrote in news:3f6bd143_2@news.cybersurf.net:

> What about them?
>>
>
> Someone posted: " TIFF allows everything PSD allows. There is never a
> need to save in PSD. Anything you can save in PSD, you can save in
> TIFF as well."
>
> I replied: "Uh... layer styles?"
>
> U said :"What about them?"
>
> I clarify: "does the TIFF spec support PS layer styles? No?
>
> Then I could suggest that saving as a TIFF does NOT allow everything
> PSD allows.

I think you should have tried saving a pic with layers styles in Tiff
format before writing all of that. Would have saved a lot of time.
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Jeff H.

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Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 52



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:04 am
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Alright, your suggestion was attempted, with results being that the layer
style remains uneditable when saved as a tiff and brought back in.

Sooo... whoever wrote: "TIFF allows everything PSD allows." had overlooked
layer styles. using PS 6 anyway...

JD


> I think you should have tried saving a pic with layers styles in Tiff
format before writing all of that. Would have saved a lot of time.
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Eric Gill

External


Since: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: 635



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: TIFF vs. PSD formats [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jeff H." <nospam@nospam> wrote in news:3f6c04c6_1@news.cybersurf.net:

> Alright, your suggestion was attempted, with results being that the
> layer style remains uneditable when saved as a tiff and brought back
> in.

Ah. I must have a "magic" copy of PS, then.

<plonk>
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