PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

It's important to use the same Color Management settings in your image
as you do on your monitor. These can be changed when you create a new
file (there will be an option asking you which setting you want). If
you need to use a different CM scheme for your monitor than sRGB (I
have to use a custom profile on my iBook otherwise everything looks
blue), then AFAIK you should also choose that setting in your image.
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

<djcredo DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160390526.002887.29580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> It's important to use the same Color Management settings in your image
> as you do on your monitor. These can be changed when you create a new
> file (there will be an option asking you which setting you want). If
> you need to use a different CM scheme for your monitor than sRGB (I
> have to use a custom profile on my iBook otherwise everything looks
> blue), then AFAIK you should also choose that setting in your image.
>

Not true.

I would suggest that you do a little reading up on Colour Management. Have
a look at the Photoshop Help Files.

sRGB and Adobe RGB are Workspace Profiles, not Monitor Profiles.

Roy G
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

On 2006-10-09 08:21:32 -0700, tacit <tacitr RemoveThis @aol.com> said:
>
> Your color management settings are wrong.
>
> Photoshop does "color management." That means it changes the colors you
> see on your computer screen in order to compensate for your exact brand
> of monitor, input device, and so on.
>
> Other programs don't do color management. They don't show color the
> same way Photoshop does.
>
> If you want to see your images in Photoshop the way that you see them
> in other programs, you can disable Photoshop's color management using
> the Color Settings command, use a different profile, or use View->Proof
> Setup->Monitor RGB.

Ah ha - changing the color management settings did the trick! Thanks.
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

In article <2006100818354716807-boog@felchcom>,
Boonish <boog.RemoveThis@felch.com> wrote:

> I Have a relatively simple 8bit RGB layered PSD which looks great
> within photoshop. However when saving for web in any format, the colors
> seem to get a bit washed out and the image appears lighter.

Your color management settings are wrong.

Photoshop does "color management." That means it changes the colors you
see on your computer screen in order to compensate for your exact brand
of monitor, input device, and so on.

Other programs don't do color management. They don't show color the same
way Photoshop does.

If you want to see your images in Photoshop the way that you see them in
other programs, you can disable Photoshop's color management using the
Color Settings command, use a different profile, or use View->Proof
Setup->Monitor RGB.

--
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink:
all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
Nanohazard, Geek shirts, and more: http://www.villaintees.com
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

Roy G <roy.gibson1.RemoveThis@REMOVE.tesco.net> wrote:

> <djcredo.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1160390526.002887.29580@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > It's important to use the same Color Management settings in your image
> > as you do on your monitor. These can be changed when you create a new
> > file (there will be an option asking you which setting you want). If you
> > need to use a different CM scheme for your monitor than sRGB (I have to
> > use a custom profile on my iBook otherwise everything looks blue), then
> > AFAIK you should also choose that setting in your image.
>
> Not true.
>
> I would suggest that you do a little reading up on Colour Management.
> Have a look at the Photoshop Help Files.
>
> sRGB and Adobe RGB are Workspace Profiles, not Monitor Profiles.

Actually, sRGB is a color profile designed to contain all the colors of
a generic CRT monitor. It's a generic monitor profile. That's why it's
useful as a 'working space' profile: Your monitor can probably display
all the colors within it.

But the distinction between 'working' and 'monitor' profiles is hardly
worth capitalization. They're just profiles, and Photoshop or QuickTime,
etc, are happy to do the conversion to whatever other profile you need.
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

"Paul Mitchum" <usenet RemoveThis @mile23.c0m> wrote in message
news:1hn7940.1vmrqit1yslc8bN%usenet@mile23.c0m...

[re sRGB versus monitor profile]

> Actually, sRGB is a color profile designed to contain all the colors of
> a generic CRT monitor. It's a generic monitor profile. That's why it's
> useful as a 'working space' profile: Your monitor can probably display
> all the colors within it.
>
> But the distinction between 'working' and 'monitor' profiles is hardly
> worth capitalization. They're just profiles, and Photoshop or QuickTime,
> etc, are happy to do the conversion to whatever other profile you need.

This is true. I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your
working color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red,
green, and blue are equal.
--
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike.TakeThisOut@Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:

> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet.TakeThisOut@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
> news:1hn7940.1vmrqit1yslc8bN%usenet@mile23.c0m...
>
> [re sRGB versus monitor profile]
>
> > Actually, sRGB is a color profile designed to contain all the colors of
> > a generic CRT monitor. It's a generic monitor profile. That's why it's
> > useful as a 'working space' profile: Your monitor can probably display
> > all the colors within it.
> >
> > But the distinction between 'working' and 'monitor' profiles is hardly
> > worth capitalization. They're just profiles, and Photoshop or QuickTime,
> > etc, are happy to do the conversion to whatever other profile you need.
>
> This is true. I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your
> working color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red,
> green, and blue are equal.

The point of profiles and color management is that you'll *see* gray at
equal RGB values *regardless of the response curve of the output
device.* If the working profile and the output profile are color
managed, then (ideally) you won't be able to tell that there's any
difference.

You choose a working space based on your needs: sRGB is a safe bet for
photography. AdobeRGB is a safe bet for just about everything including
photography. LAB makes *me* happy, but that's because I like to work
with imaginary colors.
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

> Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike.RemoveThis@Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:
>> I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your
>> working color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when
>> red,
>> green, and blue are equal.

"Paul Mitchum" <usenet.RemoveThis@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
news:1hn7him.rgkac6168231dN%usenet@mile23.c0m...
>
> The point of profiles and color management is that you'll *see* gray at
> equal RGB values *regardless of the response curve of the output
> device.*

Yes, you will see gray at equal RGB values. The opposite is not true.
Because of visual effects such as visual accomodation, you will also see
gray at approximately equal RGB values, and this will result in a subtle
color cast that will affect colors throughout the image. For this reason is
is poor practice to rely on visual appearance alone when correcting a color
cast. A numeric comparison of RGB values is a much better way to determine
a neutral.

For those who are inclined to experiment, fill a large image with
RGB(118,128,128), which is a medium blue color. Stare at the center of it
for 5 seconds, and close the window so that you are looking at Photoshop's
gray background. It will look pink for several seconds. This is why you
cannot trust your eyes alone for determining a gray color.

Numeric RGB values for gray are not guaranteed to be equal when you use a
monitor profile as your working space. For this reason using a standard
working space, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB is preferred.

> If the working profile and the output profile are color
> managed, then (ideally) you won't be able to tell that there's any
> difference.--

There will be no visual difference in any case, provided you convert between
profiles, even if those profiles are incorrect.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike.TakeThisOut@Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:

> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet.TakeThisOut@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
> news:1hn7him.rgkac6168231dN%usenet@mile23.c0m...
> > Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike.TakeThisOut@Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:
> >
> >> I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your working color
> >> space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red, green,
> >> and blue are equal.
> >
> > The point of profiles and color management is that you'll *see* gray at
> > equal RGB values *regardless of the response curve of the output
> > device.*
>
> Yes, you will see gray at equal RGB values. The opposite is not true.
> Because of visual effects such as visual accomodation, you will also see
> gray at approximately equal RGB values, and this will result in a subtle
> color cast that will affect colors throughout the image. For this reason
> is is poor practice to rely on visual appearance alone when correcting a
> color cast. A numeric comparison of RGB values is a much better way to
> determine a neutral.

If you're doing color correction in RGB, then you're already three steps
behind.

> For those who are inclined to experiment, fill a large image with
> RGB(118,128,128), which is a medium blue color. Stare at the center of it
> for 5 seconds, and close the window so that you are looking at Photoshop's
> gray background. It will look pink for several seconds. This is why you
> cannot trust your eyes alone for determining a gray color.
>
> Numeric RGB values for gray are not guaranteed to be equal when you use a
> monitor profile as your working space. For this reason using a standard
> working space, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB is preferred.

You miss the point, though: You might tell Photoshop to use sRGB or
AdobeRGB for it's working profile, but output will be mapped from that
profile to the profile of your monitor. So you have a 'working space'
profile (sRGB), and that's mapped through the monitor profile so that
Photoshop can show it to you.

This is all irrespective of visual accomodation and other sensorial
issues. No setting in Photoshop can change that.

> > If the working profile and the output profile are color managed, then
> > (ideally) you won't be able to tell that there's any difference.
>
> There will be no visual difference in any case, provided you convert
> between profiles, even if those profiles are incorrect.

If the profile is incorrect (that is: It doesn't represent the response
curve of the output device accurately), then colors will likely be
visually inaccurate. So how can you say there'll be no visual
difference?
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

"Paul Mitchum" <usenet.DeleteThis@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
news:1hn7lyh.1mm1sk81iexi6cN%usenet@mile23.c0m...
> Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike.DeleteThis@Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:
>
>> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet.DeleteThis@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
>> news:1hn7him.rgkac6168231dN%usenet@mile23.c0m...
>> > Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike.DeleteThis@Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your working
>> >> color
>> >> space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red, green,
>> >> and blue are equal.
>> >
>> > The point of profiles and color management is that you'll *see* gray at
>> > equal RGB values *regardless of the response curve of the output
>> > device.*
>>
>> Yes, you will see gray at equal RGB values. The opposite is not true.
>> Because of visual effects such as visual accomodation, you will also see
>> gray at approximately equal RGB values, and this will result in a subtle
>> color cast that will affect colors throughout the image. For this reason
>> is is poor practice to rely on visual appearance alone when correcting a
>> color cast. A numeric comparison of RGB values is a much better way to
>> determine a neutral.
>
> If you're doing color correction in RGB, then you're already three steps
> behind.

I would go further and say you're missing out if you use only one color
space . Lab is a usually my first choice as a color space for color
correction. In general it's easier to get a good result quickly in Lab than
in RGB. There are other images that benefit from RGB, CMYK, and even HSB.

....
> You miss the point, though: You might tell Photoshop to use sRGB or
> AdobeRGB for it's working profile, but output will be mapped from that
> profile to the profile of your monitor. So you have a 'working space'
> profile (sRGB), and that's mapped through the monitor profile so that
> Photoshop can show it to you.

Sure,colors are mapped from the working color space to the monitor. My
warning was about using your Monitor RGB space as your working profile.

> This is all irrespective of visual accomodation and other sensorial
> issues. No setting in Photoshop can change that.

Correcting "by the numbers" prevent visual accomodation from causing
problems.

>> > If the working profile and the output profile are color managed, then
>> > (ideally) you won't be able to tell that there's any difference.
>>
>> There will be no visual difference in any case, provided you convert
>> between profiles, even if those profiles are incorrect.
>
> If the profile is incorrect (that is: It doesn't represent the response
> curve of the output device accurately), then colors will likely be
> visually inaccurate. So how can you say there'll be no visual
> difference?

I think I was clear. We were talking about working in monitor space versus
a standard color space. As long as you use "Convert to Profile", the colors
on your screen won't change when you convert your image from your working
space to the monitor space and vice versa. This is true no matter now
accurate or inaccurate the display (or working space) profile is.
--
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike DeleteThis @Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:

> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet DeleteThis @mile23.c0m> wrote in message
> news:1hn7lyh.1mm1sk81iexi6cN%usenet@mile23.c0m...
[..]
> >> >> I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your working
> >> >> color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red,
> >> >> green, and blue are equal.
[..]
> > You miss the point, though: You might tell Photoshop to use sRGB or
> > AdobeRGB for it's working profile, but output will be mapped from that
> > profile to the profile of your monitor. So you have a 'working space'
> > profile (sRGB), and that's mapped through the monitor profile so that
> > Photoshop can show it to you.
>
> Sure,colors are mapped from the working color space to the monitor. My
> warning was about using your Monitor RGB space as your working profile.

Well, no. Your warning was that gray wouldn't be gray if you used a
monitor profile as a working space in Photoshop. And that simply doesn't
hold true.

> >> > If the working profile and the output profile are color managed, then
> >> > (ideally) you won't be able to tell that there's any difference.
> >>
> >> There will be no visual difference in any case, provided you convert
> >> between profiles, even if those profiles are incorrect.
> >
> > If the profile is incorrect (that is: It doesn't represent the response
> > curve of the output device accurately), then colors will likely be
> > visually inaccurate. So how can you say there'll be no visual
> > difference?
>
> I think I was clear. We were talking about working in monitor space
> versus a standard color space. As long as you use "Convert to Profile",
> the colors on your screen won't change when you convert your image from
> your working space to the monitor space and vice versa. This is true no
> matter now accurate or inaccurate the display (or working space) profile
> is.

Color management applies to more than just monitors.
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

> Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike.DeleteThis@Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:
[re Photoshop's use of profiles for displaying images]
>> Sure,colors are mapped from the working color space to the monitor. My
>> warning was about using your Monitor RGB space as your working profile.


"Paul Mitchum" <usenet.DeleteThis@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
news:1hn7qy2.1egxqcb45deioN%usenet@mile23.c0m...
> Well, no. Your warning was that gray wouldn't be gray if you used a
> monitor profile as a working space in Photoshop. And that simply doesn't
> hold true.

I warned against using the monitor RGB profile as a working space. This
causes problems, including an inability to accurately determine numeric gray
values. Instead of using the monitor RGB profile as your working space, use
one of the conventional working space profiles, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB.

> Color management applies to more than just monitors.

There's an interesting point about that as well. Scanner and printer
profiles make even worse working spaces than monitor profiles, so it's best
to convert scanned and printed files to or from one of the working space
profiles.
--
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting? 

Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike DeleteThis @Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:

> > Mike Russell <RE-MOVEmike DeleteThis @Curvemeister.comRE-MOVE> wrote:
> [re Photoshop's use of profiles for displaying images]
> >> Sure,colors are mapped from the working color space to the monitor. My
> >> warning was about using your Monitor RGB space as your working profile.
>
>
> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet DeleteThis @mile23.c0m> wrote in message
> news:1hn7qy2.1egxqcb45deioN%usenet@mile23.c0m...
> > Well, no. Your warning was that gray wouldn't be gray if you used a
> > monitor profile as a working space in Photoshop. And that simply doesn't
> > hold true.
>
> I warned against using the monitor RGB profile as a working space. This
> causes problems, including an inability to accurately determine numeric
> gray values.

But as I pointed out, that's not actually true.

> Instead of using the monitor RGB profile as your working space, use one of
> the conventional working space profiles, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB.

That's good advice, and a best practice, but not a hard-and-fast rule.

> > Color management applies to more than just monitors.
>
> There's an interesting point about that as well. Scanner and printer
> profiles make even worse working spaces than monitor profiles, so it's
> best to convert scanned and printed files to or from one of the working
> space profiles.

If you scan using a scanner's profile, and the profile is not accurate,
then you'll have the wrong colors. And when you convert to sRGB or
AdobeRGB or whatever, the colors will still be wrong.
 >> Stay informed about: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?